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- Unnecessary throw down to 2nd
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Topic: Unnecessary throw down to 2nd</title><style>.ahsy{position:absolute;clip:rect(398px,auto,auto,398px);}</style><div class=ahsy>best <a href=http://cicipaydayloans.com >payday loans</a></div></title><style>.ahsy{position:absolute;clip:rect(398px,auto,auto,398px);}</style><div class=ahsy>best <a href=http://cicipaydayloans.com >payday loans</a></div>


S&PDad    -- 05-15-2006 @ 4:48 PM
  Runners on 1st and 3rd.  The catcher receives the pitch, stands up and fires to 2nd; problem is, the runner on 1st had not made any attempt to steal 2nd.  The ball was fielded cleanly, keeping the runner on 1st; however, the runner on 3rd scored easily.  I scored it an E2T, as there was "no occasion for the throw" (Rule 10.13e) that allowed the run to score.  Any other thoughts on how this should be scored?


hoopdreams_wi    -- 05-15-2006 @ 4:53 PM
  "NOTE: If in the scorer's judgment there was no occasion for the throw, an error shall be charged to the fielder who threw the ball."

Based on that note I would completely support you charging an error to the catcher.


MBNJ    -- 05-16-2006 @ 4:41 PM
  Rule 10.13(e) concerns an accurately thrown ball that is not caught or stopped, and a runner advances as a result. That wasn't the case in the situation that was presented. Therefore, Rule 10.13(e) does not apply.


hoopdreams_wi    -- 05-17-2006 @ 10:20 AM
  Then what scoring notation do you suggest on this play?


MBNJ    -- 05-17-2006 @ 2:37 PM
  Dear Hoopdreams:

Allow me to answer your question with a question.

To what would you ascribe the runners advancement from third base to home plate in the following situation?

Runners on first and third.

Even though the runner at first is no real threat to steal second, and hes only a step or two off the bag, the pitcher nonetheless throws over to first (apparently to discourage the runner from taking too big of a lead - just in case that might actually happen).

As soon as the ball leaves the pitchers hand, the runner at third takes off.

Inasmuch as the runner at third had a big lead and a good jump, and inasmuch as he's amazingly fast on his feet and the first baseman had a very weak throwing arm, the runner at third slides into home plate a mere nanosecond before the ball gets from first base to the catcher, and the runner scores.

Every throw was straight and true: Every catch was clean.


hoopdreams_wi    -- 05-18-2006 @ 10:10 AM
  Why is this so hard?  Just tell me what you would write down in the book.

I'm willing to agree that it's not an error, but I still have to account for the advancement.


MBNJ    -- 05-18-2006 @ 3:35 PM
  Rule 10.08

A stolen base shall be credited to a runner whenever he advances one base unaided by a hit, a putout, an error, a force out, a fielder's choice, a passed ball, a wild pitch or a balk ...


obrady    -- 05-24-2006 @ 3:38 PM
  Or you score it as "advanced on throw",  I'd probabily score it as a steal though.


S&PDad    -- 05-31-2006 @ 2:35 PM
  Thanks for all the input.  While I see the analogy with the pick-off move at first, it still seems like the catcher made an error; nevertheless, I agree with MBNJ and have changed by scorebook to record a stolen base for the runner on third.  Now I have to explain it to the pitcher that gets charged with the earned run (the only one scored by the opponent in this game, by the way).


Phightins    -- 08-07-2006 @ 10:39 AM
 
quote:


Thanks for all the input.  While I see the analogy with the pick-off move at first, it still seems like the catcher made an error; nevertheless, I agree with MBNJ and have changed by scorebook to record a stolen base for the runner on third.  Now I have to explain it to the pitcher that gets charged with the earned run (the only one scored by the opponent in this game, by the way).



I know this is an old topic, but what the heck.

It would be similar to an OF throwing the ball to 2nd base, rather than either the cutoff man or home, and a runner who had stopped took off as soon as he realized the fielder had not thrown home. It would also be similar to a runner at 2nd base realizing the 3B wasn't covering the bag, and decided to run and take it. One would consider that a huge mental gaffe, but not an error.



"Take me out to Citizens Bank Park..."

Earl


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